In warm climates the $1,000. car makes sense, and there must be a good demand for these older vehicles.
In colder climates like Canada, and places where salt is used extensively in winter, older cars even with current metal treatment technologies still rust and corrode especially after a 12-15 year time frame. usually the brake lines and gas line is affected besides the body.
In addition there are areas that require Emission Tests, and older cars often no longer pass emission tests. In addition to Safety Inspections which can negatively impact older cars.
DR1665
· 5 months ago
Well, my old Volvo did come with paperwork showing it was originally imported to southern California and I can definitely see the point about snow and salt. It's too bad you guys up north don't have as many options when it comes to the older cars like this. They really can be a joy.
mnphysicist
· 5 months ago
I bought a $900 car off a high school kid in 96 or so... put 400,000 miles on it over the next 8 years. In the same period, the high school kid went through 5 newer cars. Imagine how much money the finance company made as well as the garage, being those newer cars were in the shop and broke down much more frequently than the one I bought.
As far as northern climates go... yep, fuel lines, brake lines, and chassis failure do happen... but it doesnt matter whether its 3 yrs old, or 15. It all depends on the manufacturing process, owner care, repair etc. New or slightly used doesnt mean the factory got it right, or that when they blew it, the repair was a good one.
I've seen as much or more corrosion on late models than old, probably because bad builds end up in the junkyard well before 15 years pass. There is a major activity in rework at the factory, as well as the distribution chain... it can visually pass as new, but that doesnt mean that underneath the car didnt undergo significant damage either in production or transit, or that the processes were running correctly the day(s) it was built.
DR1665
· 5 months ago
You mention the manufacturing process, Ron, and that gets me wondering (if not necessarily on topic). As I was reading Tino's comment, I was curious if the age of a car in various climates could be used as evidence to support theories relating to the general quality of the vehicle.
For instance, is the resilience of an old Volvo wagon like mine up north reflect superior craftsmanship or simply that, as a car designed by Swedes, it was designed to weather this sort of climate? And would such an accomplishment render a 30 year old specimen here in the dry desert any less noteworthy? Conversely, if some other make were to generally rust-through up there in half as many years, might that imply poor engineering or just a lack of interest in longevity under those circumstances?
Then again, attribute not to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance. Even so, curious...
mnphysicist
· 5 months ago
There is an aspect of process control. Certainly tight process control, including rework is going to result in better corrosion resistance... and if the controls are good in surface finishing, they likely are in other areas as well... but not always. Sometimes purchasing pushes for amazing deals, which result in corners being cut, ie manufacturing right at spec limits for specific parts or sub-assemblies, or non documented specs not being upheld.
I think there is an aspect of design for the climate of intended use, although all try to cover a wide range, some will emphasize one geographic areas more than others. Ie resistance to salt spray may be counter to UV, and or abrasion. SAE standards give quite a bit of lattitude, but internal standards documents are often much tighter in one area more than another... or if under budgetary pressure, less so.
Usually, its not great, nor poor engineering, but the tradeoffs chosen... but not always. In some cases, a engineer will go on vacation midway through a design, and another guy comes in, and doesnt fully understand or even know whats in the vacationing engineers head. Significant massive screwups start out that that way, design docs dont tell the whole story... Its the same with process operators. The old guy who has been there done that forever, often does a much better job than the guy reading the process sheets. If nothing goes wrong, end quality is the same... if something throws up, the old codger will often save the day.
My experience is a bit dated though, and things do change. Otoh, hearing mechanic friends fuss and some other engineering friends, suggest its still business as usual.
mentalsteve
· 5 months ago
this is right on... but stradablog has a good point. we out here in California have it so good in that regard.
Dirk Cajada
· 4 months ago
Frugal motoring. Love this, makes me want to fix some of the dents on my own car.
All Comments
In colder climates like Canada, and places where salt is used extensively in winter, older cars even with current metal treatment technologies still rust and corrode especially after a 12-15 year time frame. usually the brake lines and gas line is affected besides the body.
In addition there are areas that require Emission Tests, and older cars often no longer pass emission tests. In addition to Safety Inspections which can negatively impact older cars.
As far as northern climates go... yep, fuel lines, brake lines, and chassis failure do happen... but it doesnt matter whether its 3 yrs old, or 15. It all depends on the manufacturing process, owner care, repair etc. New or slightly used doesnt mean the factory got it right, or that when they blew it, the repair was a good one.
I've seen as much or more corrosion on late models than old, probably because bad builds end up in the junkyard well before 15 years pass. There is a major activity in rework at the factory, as well as the distribution chain... it can visually pass as new, but that doesnt mean that underneath the car didnt undergo significant damage either in production or transit, or that the processes were running correctly the day(s) it was built.
For instance, is the resilience of an old Volvo wagon like mine up north reflect superior craftsmanship or simply that, as a car designed by Swedes, it was designed to weather this sort of climate? And would such an accomplishment render a 30 year old specimen here in the dry desert any less noteworthy? Conversely, if some other make were to generally rust-through up there in half as many years, might that imply poor engineering or just a lack of interest in longevity under those circumstances?
Then again, attribute not to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance. Even so, curious...
I think there is an aspect of design for the climate of intended use, although all try to cover a wide range, some will emphasize one geographic areas more than others. Ie resistance to salt spray may be counter to UV, and or abrasion. SAE standards give quite a bit of lattitude, but internal standards documents are often much tighter in one area more than another... or if under budgetary pressure, less so.
Usually, its not great, nor poor engineering, but the tradeoffs chosen... but not always. In some cases, a engineer will go on vacation midway through a design, and another guy comes in, and doesnt fully understand or even know whats in the vacationing engineers head. Significant massive screwups start out that that way, design docs dont tell the whole story... Its the same with process operators. The old guy who has been there done that forever, often does a much better job than the guy reading the process sheets. If nothing goes wrong, end quality is the same... if something throws up, the old codger will often save the day.
My experience is a bit dated though, and things do change. Otoh, hearing mechanic friends fuss and some other engineering friends, suggest its still business as usual.